Author Topic: AVWW2 Strategy Problems  (Read 1013 times)

Offline Phadin

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AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« on: January 18, 2013, 08:02:34 PM »
Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems you can no longer rebuild destroyed tiles?  This seems a critical flaw in the strategy portion of the game.  I started a new game on the second easiest strategy difficulty.  by 10 turns in, I had only just finished building a new farm, and Demonica had just destroyed my old one.  Worse yet, the farm I built was only 4 tiles away from him (and in the direction he was currently traveling).  No other tiles I had uncovered could produce food or a farm.

Without the ability to rebuild critical structures, such as these rare farm tiles, or the mana pyramids (I had found only one so far), my survivors are already doomed to starvation.  Even if the two farms were spread out, all it would take is Demonica wandering over to and destroying each farm in turn and there seems to be no way to prevent or remedy this.

If there is a way to clear rubble from a tile and rebuild destroyed tiles, please let me know.  Otherwise, it seems like the strategy side is just a slow descent to doom.

Offline x4000

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Re: AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2013, 08:07:04 PM »
There is no way to rebuild tiles anymore, you are correct -- and ultimately, it is a slow descent to doom, you are also correct.  However, you have more than enough resources on the map to keep that doom at bay long enough to get your character powered up and then go take Demonaica down.  This isn't a long-form war that can go on indefinitely, but rather something that you have to win before Demonaica kills you all.

That said, there are some major changes coming in the next few days that give you ways to defend buildings from Demonaica even though you won't be able to rebuild.  The game is quite winnable in the current model that you're playing on, but I think you'll find the new model more interesting and fun.
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Offline Phadin

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Re: AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2013, 08:42:36 AM »
Ok, I'll wait to see what comes with the next one.  Right now, I'm staring at check-mate in 4 moves, and there is nothing I can do to prevent it.... which isn't a good situation for only 10 turns into the game.

Offline keith.lamothe

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Re: AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2013, 10:14:02 AM »
Balancing is definitely still ongoing, but the rebuilding being gone is quite intentional, yes.

Thanks for letting us know, though.  I've been thinking that the round of changes I'm working on now would work out to an easier strategic game, but from your feedback that wouldn't be a bad thing, at least for you ;)
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Offline Misery

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Re: AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »
The food and mana are definitely a problem in the current build.

The problem as I see it is that the world generator was likely balanced for the original interpretation of the strategic game.    The pyramids, for example;  because of their rarity, generating mana from them required a constant influx of scrap to keep them going each time Demonaica destroyed one, and they were always a high priority rebuild because of that.   Farms were kinda similar, though not quite as hard to deal with.... UNLESS you hadnt encountered enough of those Shallows areas;  but you could always at least re-build the rare but useful "basic" farm tile.

The worldgen seems set up to make that work, and in the current version, this can lead to lack of resources not due to stratigic errors by the player, and not due to Demonaica's actions, but due entirely to the whims of the RNG.  This means that food is hard to deal with, partciularly if you only have one Shallows biome area open to you currently, and it means that mana is nigh-impossible to obtain.... there's not much at all you can do there, and the moment you get one of those pyramids up, well....  chances are, it's not going to last very long.

My thoughts on this, is that with the changes to the way the actual gameplay works, some changes to the worldgen might be needed, and possibly even the introduction of more tile or building types to give more options for those important resources.    The strategic part of the game is coming along nicely as it is right now, but this bit is the part that can currently lead to major frustration.


I'm interested to see what kinds of defensive options might be added here, though.   That sounds like a good addition to all of this.

Offline x4000

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Re: AVWW2 Strategy Problems
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 04:57:32 PM »
By the by, the new version came out yesterday -- lots of new stuff in there: http://arcengames.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=Valley_2_-_Beta_Release_Notes#Strategic_Refinements.2C_Round_4
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